COMMENT: MIKE MUNNIS

NOV 17, 22:51:24

» When your adrenaline is pumping, your fighting for your life and people are shooting at you, I don't expect to hear a thoughtful discourse on war and killing. Those soldiers are hardly in a mindset for introspection on the neccessity of killing during wartime.

I find the last part of your message offensive and insulting. It's not fair to place the political motivations of any government and place that burden on the shoulders of it's soldiers. Ask any one of our boys and girls where they would prefer to be right now, and it sure as heck wouldn't be Iraq. I doubt any of them would share your view on why they get up every day and risk their life.

A thoughtful news media would follow up after the attack and ask the soldiers how they felt when the fighting was over. They would ask a question like -- during the battle you guys where really whooping it up, what was going through your head during that time? Did you kill anyone in the battle? How did you feel about having to kill another person.

We don't have thoughful media in this world. And if you think a few sound bites of soldiers whooping it up during or before a battle are representative of the entire war, then you've been seriously misled.

Your obviously an intelligent person Ferdy, so please don't be a reactionary who believes what he reads in the papers or watches on the TV, or use that to forumlate your opinions. It's time we all work up and started to demand more from our news sources.

Part of the reason I am such a supporter of blogs is that I think personal publishing has tremendous potential and power to change the way news is delivered to people. There is nothing more immediate or real than a blogger in Fullujah posting his comments to his blog during an attack. Of course, that was a bad exmaple given their infrastructure, but you get my point, hopefully.

Mike «

COMMENT: FERDY CHRISTANT

NOV 18, 06:30:47

» Mike,

I can see where you're coming from. But doesn't the majority of the soldiers sign up voluntary? I know this blog entry is provocative, but what about these images:

1) The images described above, where theyre literally having a good time destroying a town and its population

2) The event the day after, where an american soldier executes a wounded unarmed rebel laying half-dead on the ground. The one liners of the executer you probably have heard if they werent censored there.

3) The torturing and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners.

4) American soldiers playing hard rock music while blasting their way through cities

I'm not saying all of these are representative to the moral in the american army, but you cant deny that they are true.

In terms of my sources, yes, I'm not an expert doing thorough investigation, yet I use reliable news sources. I would not trust many american news sources to inform me. We still get our news uncut, uncensored and unopiniated here.

In the end you are probably right, my view was too simplistic, yet you have to realise how events like this influence the world in the end. «

COMMENT: BEN PERALES

NOV 18, 07:58:03

» wow, ferdy is not just an ordinary geek...he's a political geek as well...you never cease to amaze me man....

regards «

COMMENT: FERDY CHRISTANT

NOV 18, 09:13:04

» No way I'm a political geek, but it does fascinate me

I usually keep it to myself though, because it generally only divides people. «

COMMENT: RICHARD SCHWARTZ

NOV 23, 20:40:06

» Ferdy, have you ever been a soldier in combat? I haven't, so if you haven't either we're equal. Equally ignorant. Just want to get that out of the way. Also, my position has been expressed in various blogs already, so I'll just summarize. I don't like the fact that my government lied to get my country into this war. I do not, however, agree with those who say that our motive was oil or contracts to rebuild. I also don't like the fact that my government has not conducted the war in a way that will lead to real victory or the fact that my government has created a very real terrorist threat in Iraq where little if any at all existed before.

I'd like, however, to call your attention to the fact that the insurgents we are fighting in Fallujah have been the ones making the type of statements that you seem to want from our troops. They stand up and talk about what, to them, is a perfectly coherent and honorable philsophy that justifies their jihad, and then they chop off the head of a hostage. Surely you're not any more approving of them for having made their speech rather than just shouting "Whooohooo!" before the behaeading. If they were playing traditional Iraqi religious songs while doing this, would it be any better than if they were playing rock music?

Please do not equate a battle cry with having fun. I've never been in the heat of battle, but if I were I'm sure I would do everything possible to my morale up and the morale of my enemy down, and if that happens to resemble taking pleasure in killing so be it. War is about killing on the one hand, and surviving on the other. There's been a great deal of killing in Iraq, and nobody is happy about that -- but the job of survival remains. The mothers of American soldiers just want their sons and daughters to come home alive and in one piece, and without having undergone severe psychological trauma and becoming killing machines either.

Regarding the soldier who was videotaped shooting the unarmed and wounded Iraqi, I direct your attention to my post from yesterday, where I discuss how our media is dealing with it.

http://smokey.rhs.com/web/blog/rhs.nsf/stories/ImVeryDisappointedInTheNewYorkTimesToday

Our media is not sugar-coating this at all. The "one-liners" have not been broadcast, but they have been reported. Our media is even making it look worse than it probably really was, which is what prompted me to write a letter to the New York Times' ombudsman. Has your reliable, uncut, uncensored and unopinionated media even given you the URL to the vdeo cameraman's blog post about the incident? I recommend that you read it at http://www.kevinsites.net/2004_11_21_archive.html#110107420331292115

It is powerful stuff. There's far more to the story than what you saw on television. If you do not find it to be an objective account of the situation, I honestly don't know what you will require. The public pressure in the US, however, is so enormous that it is guaranteed that the military investigation is going to be thorough, and whether the conclusion is malice, negligence, or a fatal but non-criminal mistake, I will accept it. I'll still oppose a great deal about this war, it's conduct, and the conduct of operations like the one in Fallujah (which should have been done in such a way that the majority of the insurgents couldn't escape before it even started!), but because once we started the destruction we now owe it to the people of Iraq to accomplish our mission. Wiping out the terrorists who beheaded hostages in Fallujah, and whose formidable captured arsenals prove were far more than just a small bunch of criminals, is now the major mission. Surviving while doing that is the soldier's mission. If appearing to enjoy the mission helps with survival and helps accomplish the mission, that's fine by me. The eloquent speeches can come afterward. They likely only happy during the battle in movies and literature.

-rich «

COMMENT: FERDY CHRISTANT

NOV 23, 21:39:14

» A very long comment, Richard, thank you.

I obviously agree that the enemy is far worse in its behavior but thats not the point im trying to make. I also of course agree that the parents of the soldiers should see their son return home safely.

No, I haven't been a soldier or in combat ever. You may argue that in that case I'm not in the position to judge. But I'm not judging, I'm forming an opinion, like I can also perform an opinion about an overpayed athlete who doesn't perform. I dont necessarily have to have played at the top level of the game to have an opinion about it, do I?

I'm not gonna investigate every incident thoroughly. Yes, there is probably more to the story, but you can't deny images either, even in isolation. I hear your point about keeping up the morale, but it doesn't apply in this particular case. Cowboy cheers while breaking down a country that didn't ask for all this "help" is not appropriate. It is a thing the US army can and should do without.

I guess we could argue forever about individual incidents but I get the impression they're piling up. These things look bad to the rest of the world. Perhaps 99% of the army isn't like this, yet that is what we don't see. We are stationed there as well, be it in a neglectable amount, so it would be silly for me to judge this war.

My personal morale of this story: Don't blog about politics «

COMMENT: RICHARD SCHWARTZ

NOV 24, 17:47:10

» I'll say a few more things, and then I'll shut up. The fact is that the US forces has allowed and facilitated more extensive video coverage of their action than any other army has ever done in any war. No attempt was made to censor that video, which was shot by a US network cameraman. If the US government and our military men and women did not think that the mission was honorable and did not intend for the mission to be carried out honorably, then surely this would not be the case. Are they 100% right? Undoubtedly not, as certainly as no war can be completely honorable. As I said, there is a great deal about this war that I share your opposition to.

I say that you should blog about politics. Stifling discourse is not my intention at all. The more that is said, the better. Yes, we disagree, but that does not mean we should not discuss. That does not mean that we can't educate each other. I have learned from you, and I hope perhaps that you have learned from me, even if neither of us has changed the other's mind. And it definitely does not mean we can not be friends. We likely agree on more about this war than we disagree about, and one thing that I like to believe is true about myself is that I can argue with a friend about politics, work, art, sports, or life, and do so passsionately, and then shake hands, have a beer, and move on.

-rich «

COMMENT: FERDY

NOV 24, 18:42:18

» Richard, couldn't agree more. Yes, I definitely have learned from you as well and some of my opinion is changed because of your feedback.

Eventually I take nothing serious enough in life for it to be worth involving in a fight or making an enemy. Bring on the beer! «